Greg Robertson From The Organic Boat Shop Drops By!

Greg talks about canoes - so many types and manufacturers, growing a business from a side-hustle to full time, delivering canoes all over the country and being a paddling instructor.

www.organicboatshop.com
https://www.instagram.com/organicboatshop/
https://www.facebook.com/organicboatshop

Transcript

00:00 - 00:04
Hello and good day, eh? Welcome to the Super Good Camping podcast. My name is Pamela.

00:04 - 00:08
I'm Tim and we are from supergoodcamping.com we are here because we are on a mission to inspire

00:08 - 00:13
other families to enjoy camping adventures such as we have with our kids today on the show.

00:13 - 00:19
Located in beautiful Beamsville, Ontario, the Organic Boat Shop has all your canoe and outdoor adventure needs covered.

00:19 - 00:23
Canoes, kayaks, paddles, PFDs, maps, tents, rentals, you name it.

00:23 - 00:26
Our guest today is also a certified ORCA instructor.

00:26 - 00:32
Please welcome Greg Robertson, the hard working owner of the Organic Boat Shop. Welcome to the show.

00:32 - 00:33
Thanks for having me, guys.

00:34 - 00:36
Thanks. Thanks for coming to Yakman.

00:36 - 00:40
Yeah, I, I know we've come, we're coming up and it's got to be close to a year since the first

00:40 - 00:43
time we talked about dragging you on the podcast.

00:43 - 00:45
Yeah, probably most likely.

00:45 - 00:51
Welcome to somebody with a very, very busy life and, and just the, the adventure people in general,

00:51 - 00:54
it just seems to be, it's, it's never, it's like, yeah, okay, we.

00:54 - 00:56
What's Wednesday like for you? No, never plays it.

00:56 - 00:56
Yeah.

00:56 - 00:59
My side gig is that day and my real job is this day.

00:59 - 01:00
Yeah, exactly.

01:00 - 01:01
Going camping.

01:01 - 01:06
Yeah. Yeah. I've been thinking lately in the past, I used to think there was an off season.

01:07 - 01:08
There's no such thing as an off season anymore.

01:09 - 01:10
It doesn't seem to play that way.

01:10 - 01:13
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of frustrated people right now.

01:13 - 01:21
We're recording this in, in early January 2024 and there's a lot of people that are like, where's the snow? Where's the ice?

01:21 - 01:22
Right.

01:22 - 01:24
I don't know. I'm, I'm all set to go ice fishing.

01:24 - 01:29
I'm all set to go and build myself a Quincy and, and whatever. Do. Do some winter camping.

01:29 - 01:30
I can do some slush camping.

01:30 - 01:32
That seems to be what I can do.

01:32 - 01:34
Yeah. Never mind the snowmobilers.

01:34 - 01:37
Yeah. Yeah. That must be crazy for that.

01:37 - 01:39
There may not be an ice in this year alone.

01:40 - 01:43
Right? Yeah, there's no ice. Yeah.

01:44 - 01:45
Yeah. It's sad. Climate change.

01:45 - 01:47
I'm not gonna go for paddling.

01:47 - 01:50
I've been out a little bit here and there in December, late December and that.

01:50 - 01:53
So it's still can get on the water a little bit if you're safe. Right.

01:53 - 01:58
Which is pretty crazy for like late December, even early January. I just saw.

01:59 - 02:04
Oh, Sean from Paddling Outdoor or Paddling Adventure Radio. Right.

02:04 - 02:09
He, he was just in Mew Lake paddling like pictures at the front of his canoe.

02:09 - 02:11
Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy.

02:11 - 02:12
That's crazy, man.

02:12 - 02:13
Yeah, for sure.

02:14 - 02:21
Question for you. When did you start the, the, the organic boat shop and, and what prompted you to go there?

02:21 - 02:27
Yeah, so 2015. I was selling a lot of used products and that including used canoes.

02:27 - 02:32
And in the past I used to sell a lot of used aluminum boats and motors.

02:32 - 02:35
Really was a thing and, and it was just a hobby of mine. It was fun.

02:36 - 02:40
Allowed me to have some extra cash on the side and be able to have my own boats and that.

02:41 - 02:45
And then over time we were selling used stuff for, for quite a quite a while.

02:45 - 02:49
Was an okay market and put us in touch with some great people.

02:49 - 02:54
Was started moving in the direction of a business a little bit, but was just a side hustle.

02:54 - 03:04
And in 2018 I picked up 13 boats off of Jeff at H2O canoes and.15. Sorry, 13 canoes.

03:04 - 03:07
And you know, we had them in our backyard.

03:07 - 03:10
You know, my family was like, you're crazy. What are you doing? Right. The 13 boats.

03:10 - 03:16
Here we live in a small side splits house, four kids, two large dogs, one bathroom. It's quite interesting.

03:16 - 03:18
But we have a decent yard which is nice.

03:18 - 03:22
So you know, in the nicer weather it's good to have the kids outdoors.

03:22 - 03:25
In the cooler weather when they're inside, it's a little crazy.

03:25 - 03:27
But anyway, tripping over canoes.

03:27 - 03:32
Yeah. So as a result of that I was like, oh, it'll be good to get in some, some paddles and

03:32 - 03:33
some yolks to sell with these boats.

03:33 - 03:40
And so I got in touch with Teal paddle at the time and who has since retired and more or less close up shop.

03:40 - 03:46
They do a few things here and there now, but they're very well known brand in, in Ontario and throughout the canoeing community.

03:46 - 03:50
And yeah, so we started selling new products that way a little bit.

03:50 - 03:53
Right then Covid hit and before COVID I started to.

03:53 - 03:58
I registered a business and started moving the direction of wanting to bring in new canoes, new products.

03:58 - 04:02
Started reaching out to almost every manufacturer that there was out there.

04:02 - 04:04
And they're like, okay, like where's your showroom?

04:04 - 04:05
I'm like, I don't have a showroom. Right.

04:05 - 04:09
And that usually ended the conversation pretty quick until I got in touch with Winona Canoes

04:09 - 04:15
who used to be a well populated and popular brand in Ontario and in Canada in general.

04:15 - 04:21
My read on it is since the develop, not just the development but the growth of some really good

04:21 - 04:28
high end canoe products canoe manufacturers in Ontario, there's been less desire for American products sometimes.

04:28 - 04:31
But there's still a Winona community out there. A Winona customer.

04:31 - 04:36
Just like, you know, you have a customer that's into Chevy or Ford, you know, there's still

04:36 - 04:39
people that are into Winona canoes and they make a lot of different models and they're more

04:39 - 04:40
than willing to take us on.

04:41 - 04:42
So super grateful for that.

04:42 - 04:44
We placed an order with them.

04:44 - 04:48
And at that time, around that time, Teal actually decided to retire.

04:48 - 04:51
So I started looking around for a new manufacturer of.

04:51 - 04:53
Of yolks, really deep dish yolks.

04:54 - 05:00
And I came across Raume out of Quebec and we, we bought a lot of their canoe parts.

05:00 - 05:06
Seats, paddle, not paddles at that time, but yolks and, and that sort of stuff thwarts mainly.

05:06 - 05:08
And we had no problem selling Jeff's used boats, obviously. Right.

05:08 - 05:09
So they were, they were all gone.

05:09 - 05:12
And we needed these, some new boats to come in. We were waiting.

05:12 - 05:18
We got a delivery of Winona canoes In late in 2019, in the winter or so.

05:18 - 05:21
It was actually in November.

05:21 - 05:26
After that, we started learning the process of selling new canoes, that sort of thing.

05:26 - 05:29
It was a bit of a risk at the time for us financially.

05:29 - 05:30
It was a new game.

05:30 - 05:32
You know, the first time dropping $70,000 on.

05:32 - 05:37
On something and then being like, okay, we got to move this now. Right? And I enjoy that. Yeah.

05:37 - 05:43
I love the, I love the outdoors, I love paddling, and I love all that part of our business.

05:43 - 05:48
But I also really love entrepreneurship and finding the way to sell things and to connect with

05:48 - 05:51
people, but to sell things that they need. Right.

05:51 - 05:55
So not just like pushing things on people, but really discerning with them what is the proper

05:55 - 05:59
thing that they need to make their experience in the outdoors that much better.

05:59 - 06:01
And there's so many different when it's.

06:01 - 06:04
A product that you, you believe in and you believe in outdoors and.

06:04 - 06:12
Exactly right, yeah. So from there I like, kind of was like, wouldn't it be nice we could sell Raum's canoes. Right.

06:12 - 06:14
Because Raum makes canoes for Langford.

06:14 - 06:17
Langford's a well known brand in Ontario, or had been.

06:17 - 06:21
And I was like, there's no way we're gonna be able to sell these because Langford's in here sort of thing.

06:21 - 06:23
You want to step on toes and whatever.

06:23 - 06:27
I reached out, they're like, yeah, of course we want to actually start building our own brand name canoes.

06:28 - 06:29
Like, it's the same model, right?

06:29 - 06:30
The exact same model there.

06:30 - 06:36
They always have been making canoes for other manufacturers and have primarily been a business to business model.

06:36 - 06:40
And Then over the years they started delving into, you know, developing their own brand and

06:40 - 06:44
selling under their own family brand name of Rayon Canoes.

06:44 - 06:47
And I was ecstatic to be able to get their canoes because they're, they're beautiful, they're

06:47 - 06:51
Canadian made, they're a great company, family owned company.

06:51 - 06:53
And so we have great communication with them.

06:53 - 06:56
And yeah, that's kind of how it got going little by little.

06:56 - 07:01
And we had, you know, our first year, 2019 was still during the COVID years.

07:01 - 07:06
So dealing with Winona and Rayom and trying to get orders when everybody was like, we want to

07:06 - 07:11
boat, we want to boat, like so we never had anything actually in stock. It's just moving constantly. Right.

07:12 - 07:16
And then now going into the transition we actually this year I had been trying for three years

07:16 - 07:20
to get in with a skiff canoes as well, which is a great brand and a different price point, but

07:20 - 07:22
also targets a different type of paddler. Right.

07:22 - 07:29
Some white water stuff and that sort of thing, but also touring, fishing, solo boats, the whole gamut.

07:29 - 07:32
And because of COVID and the demands on their, their manufacturing, they weren't able to take

07:32 - 07:34
on any new retailers at the time.

07:34 - 07:40
But since they were able to and this past fall of 2023, we became a retailer for a dealer for,

07:40 - 07:45
for a skiff and we've been selling lots of their boats already. So it's been great.

07:45 - 07:47
I'm learning a lot every day and enjoying it.

07:47 - 07:53
And that's the motivation I would say came from many things, the desire to have my own business

07:53 - 07:54
and to connect with the outdoors.

07:54 - 07:58
But it was very organic how it just developed over time. Right.

07:58 - 08:01
It wasn't just like, okay, tomorrow I'm going to open up a business and we're going to run with it.

08:01 - 08:06
It was like a kind of a side hustle that I always had a dream of it becoming a full time reality

08:06 - 08:09
and I'm knocking on that door of it becoming full time.

08:09 - 08:15
And there's many factors that play into that, including the fact now that we were an orca instructor

08:15 - 08:18
as well, we offer orca courses and so that's.

08:18 - 08:22
It's been a great connection with the community that way and be able to offer courses and connect with people.

08:22 - 08:26
And that's with Tim and, and your son.

08:26 - 08:29
We had a chance to, to be on a course last fall, so.

08:29 - 08:31
Or late summer, I think it was.

08:31 - 08:33
It was late. Yeah, it was, I think it was in September, so.

08:34 - 08:34
Yeah, yeah.

08:34 - 08:36
However you want to look at that on the break.

08:37 - 08:40
Yeah. So that's kind of the background of it there.

08:40 - 08:43
And my wife Jody, who plays a big part in things as well.

08:43 - 08:46
She's always quiet in the background, but she's huge on the outdoors.

08:46 - 08:52
She actually works at an outdoor school with children and she's grown up in the outdoors as

08:52 - 08:55
well as myself and we've come from different backgrounds.

08:55 - 08:59
One of the funny things around the canoeing factor there.

08:59 - 09:01
I didn't grow up canoeing.

09:01 - 09:02
I grew up mainly in.

09:02 - 09:08
In aluminum boats, fishing and small like 9.9 horsepower motors and trolling and that sort of thing.

09:08 - 09:15
On Georgia Bay we did some canoeing a little bit down the Shawnega river with some friends in that. But not, not extensive.

09:15 - 09:18
But she grew up in a canoeing family, you know, and she.

09:18 - 09:19
In high school she did.

09:19 - 09:25
She went to Lady Evelyn Provincial park and Tomogamy with her outdoor course class in high school

09:25 - 09:27
and that and winter camping and all that sort of stuff.

09:27 - 09:30
And her dad was into outdoors quite a bit and canoeing.

09:30 - 09:31
And so one day we're.

09:31 - 09:36
Anyways we're at my parents cottage which is on Georgian Bay just north of Perry Sound.

09:36 - 09:41
And my buddy's there who also grew up canoeing and he was a guide up in Quetico for a number of summers.

09:41 - 09:46
And the two of them were like, well, we're gonna go down to a river that's a beautiful spot.

09:46 - 09:47
One of my favorite spots in the world really.

09:48 - 09:52
We're gonna leave my parents place and go down to this river and they're like well, we're gonna canoe over.

09:53 - 09:56
And the rest of us, we had some kids and that we're gonna boat over, right.

09:56 - 10:00
I'm like why would you canoe? That would. That would take forever.

10:00 - 10:01
Like why would you do that?

10:01 - 10:06
Like we have the boat. So they did that. Right. And whatever.

10:06 - 10:12
And then later on on that, I think it was that weekend I got out in the canoe with her and I

10:12 - 10:16
was like, this is beautiful. This is awesome. I loved it. I absolutely loved it. And it just was.

10:16 - 10:20
It's a different pace, different approach and slows you right down.

10:20 - 10:24
You can't go anywhere fast. Right. And per se. Yeah.

10:24 - 10:26
So anyways, that's kind of open up the door to.

10:26 - 10:28
To the canoe world for me.

10:28 - 10:30
Cool. What do you guys.

10:31 - 10:37
So, so being outdoor types, do you guys actually like pack up four kids and two dogs and go

10:37 - 10:42
away for any period of time, you know, like, like bugger off and go camping?

10:42 - 10:43
Yeah, so we do. We've.

10:44 - 10:46
We did a trip into Killarney as a family like that.

10:46 - 10:52
So we actually brought my mom and my stepdad who are 65 and 70. So we had two. We had two.

10:52 - 10:54
Two canoes at the time. Four kids.

10:55 - 10:58
No, we had three canoes. Four kids, two dogs.

10:58 - 11:00
The one dog, we have two large dogs.

11:00 - 11:03
One's a German shorthaired pointer. One's a Weimaraner. But the Weimar.

11:03 - 11:05
That, the Weimaraner at the time was just a puppy.

11:05 - 11:06
So he's a little guy.

11:06 - 11:12
And we, we ventured off and went out for just a couple days at the time and, and man, the best

11:13 - 11:15
experience of, of our lives with the kids and memories.

11:15 - 11:18
It's a lot of work naturally, obviously, right, to, to get them all out there, but once you're

11:18 - 11:20
out there, it's just a great experience.

11:21 - 11:27
And then we have a, a property of our own that we're building a small cabin on in the French river area in Alban.

11:27 - 11:32
And so we do a lot of day trips out of there, do some paddling on the, on the French.

11:33 - 11:37
There's a couple of backcountry trips and that sort of thing on the French and the five mile

11:37 - 11:38
rapids area and that sort of thing.

11:38 - 11:43
And so we're, we're growing little by little as my kids get older and maybe start to paddle

11:44 - 11:49
a little bit more like in a sense of actually put their paddle in the water, they'll come in the boat, no problem. Right.

11:49 - 11:51
But so we do that. Yeah.

11:51 - 11:54
And I foresee doing that a lot more of that as we go.

11:54 - 11:56
And it's a bit of a juggling act with, with the business.

11:56 - 11:58
And as it's growing, my hope is when I.

11:58 - 12:03
I'm more full time that I'll have more windows of opportunity maybe in the shoulder seasons

12:03 - 12:04
and that sort of thing and scheduling things.

12:05 - 12:08
We definitely will be on the water and some backcountry experiences for sure.

12:08 - 12:13
That's like I'm. I'm still picturing three canoes with that many bodies in it, plus beer. Plus.

12:13 - 12:15
Plus plus It's a lot.

12:15 - 12:21
Yeah. Yeah. We. We rented an island. Like. Sorry. We.

12:21 - 12:24
We booked an island and with the two dogs and all that sort of thing.

12:24 - 12:26
So it was just like we were all contained and you couldn't go anywhere.

12:26 - 12:32
They couldn't run, they couldn't interfere and bug anybody else from even a ways down on a backcountry campsite and whatever.

12:32 - 12:36
But so works out well. Yeah.

12:36 - 12:36
Sounds awesome.

12:36 - 12:37
Yeah. Yeah.

12:37 - 12:45
So just curious with the ORCA training, if you have any stories of like really disastrous students that you had.

12:45 - 12:47
Right. So there's this guy named Tim.

12:47 - 12:52
No, I, I dumped it. I totally.

12:52 - 12:54
Yeah, my brain just froze.

12:54 - 12:55
I had the paddle in the wrong position.

12:56 - 12:58
Yeah, it happens. It happens.

12:58 - 12:59
It almost happened to me with a buddy.

12:59 - 13:02
We were out on Jordan harbor in December, right.

13:02 - 13:06
And we got into a little bit of current in a certain area and it could happen in a heartbeat. So. Happens to anybody.

13:06 - 13:09
I wouldn't say it we've had any disaster situations.

13:09 - 13:13
But he means one of the great things about ORCA is the really the focus on safety.

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And you know, I've, I was only trained and got my basic canoe instructor certification last April.

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So I'm, I'm new to the ORCA community and new to the game, so.

13:23 - 13:30
And we ran two courses last year, one with the Magneta one First nations community and primarily their lands department.

13:30 - 13:34
They wanted to get some certification to start running some trips and also they, they do a lot

13:34 - 13:38
of turtle collection collecting and hatching of eggs and that sort of thing.

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So they've a really neat program.

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We got a chance to stop in there with our kids and show them and check it all out.

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And then I had a group down in here in Niagara with Tim and several others.

13:47 - 13:50
So I just got my feet wet in running some courses, that sort of thing.

13:50 - 13:54
But I'm sure some stories will come up over the, over the years once we, we get going.

13:54 - 13:56
We have several courses planned for this year.

13:57 - 14:02
Just putting together an instructor course as well to try to get more instructors certified

14:02 - 14:06
in our area and working with different, different instructors as well, which has been, been great.

14:06 - 14:11
So we've had a few different provincial parks reach out to us to, to lead some courses for their

14:11 - 14:14
staff, our local conservation authority as well.

14:14 - 14:16
So yeah, little by little.

14:16 - 14:19
So what's the process of becoming an ORCA instructor?

14:19 - 14:25
Right, so typically you have, you've taken your level one to four, so your level one to three

14:25 - 14:31
is your tandem courses of introduction, basic canoeing, that sort of thing.

14:31 - 14:33
And then level four is an introduction to solo paddling.

14:33 - 14:40
So you've taken that and then after that you can take the basic canoeing instructor course which

14:40 - 14:45
is typically a six day course, 48 hours or so of paddling on the actual paddling on the water.

14:45 - 14:48
So it's, it's a rather intense time.

14:48 - 14:51
Like I've talked to several people and even myself, I thought am I gonna be able to handle,

14:51 - 14:55
you know, five, six hours a day paddling on the water with my knees?

14:55 - 14:59
I bought a really good knee pad before I went. That was helpful. And you find.

14:59 - 15:03
Actually I found I'm, I'm not super fit, but I'm in decent shape.

15:03 - 15:05
I have some lower back challenges in that.

15:05 - 15:10
But you Know, paddling, one of the great things, especially if you're doing it properly, strengthens your core. Right.

15:10 - 15:17
So through that week and if we had a great time, learned a lot from each other, and there's

15:17 - 15:22
some in class learning that you do, there's a lot of on the water training that you do.

15:22 - 15:27
And the goal is to perfect your own skills, but also learn how to impart those skills to others

15:27 - 15:29
as you start to run your own courses.

15:29 - 15:35
And some people will be trained through their employer, like a conservation authority or a provincial

15:35 - 15:39
park or something like that, so that they can then train their own staff.

15:39 - 15:42
They don't have to bring in an ORCAN instructor.

15:42 - 15:46
They can train their own staff if they become an organizational member of orca and other people

15:46 - 15:53
will do it, to work for an organizational member, which is just like a member of ORCA that runs

15:54 - 15:59
courses and they'll work underneath them or they'll establish themselves as a company or a group.

15:59 - 16:05
An organizational member can be like a scouting group or a conservation authority or a business like ourselves.

16:06 - 16:07
And that's, that's what we did.

16:07 - 16:12
We established ourselves as a ORCA organizational member to be able to offer courses through

16:12 - 16:13
our business, the organic boat shop.

16:13 - 16:17
Yeah, so that's, that's kind of the process. Hopefully you pass everything.

16:18 - 16:21
You know, sometimes, like everybody's great in the community. We worked.

16:21 - 16:28
I took my course with a gentleman named Randy Bartlett and he's extremely well seasoned.

16:28 - 16:31
I think he started his training in 2009 or so.

16:32 - 16:34
Tons of experience of Canadian style paddling.

16:34 - 16:41
I was in the guys that he brought in to, to assist, like, fabulous. They knew so much.

16:41 - 16:46
You know, you think if you've never taken a paddling course before, and it is very much like

16:46 - 16:48
a European sort of thing, like we need to certify everybody, right.

16:48 - 16:50
And everything needs to be structured and organized.

16:50 - 16:57
But really the certification program, from my understanding, it came out of the result of tragedy, right?

16:57 - 17:03
So when there, there was tragedy and several people, young people in a school environment situation

17:03 - 17:09
on a backcountry trip passed away as a result of, you know, some poor planning and circumstances

17:10 - 17:10
and that sort of thing.

17:10 - 17:14
And then everybody's radar's up, the school boards and that, that sort of thing.

17:14 - 17:21
And they need, you know, from what I heard at that time, the, the Temiskaming tragedy occurred.

17:21 - 17:27
And more or less people organizations like scouting groups and schools that had fleets of canoes,

17:27 - 17:29
they were locked up and was like, don't touch those.

17:29 - 17:30
We're like, there's too much liability.

17:30 - 17:32
We don't want anything to happen.

17:32 - 17:38
So a group of people kind of took it on themselves to establish an organization that would say, we'll certify people and.

17:38 - 17:44
And put the training in place so that there's legitimacy and there's. There's.

17:44 - 17:48
People are properly trained and safely trained when they go out on that.

17:48 - 17:50
Not just backcountry trips, but on the water in general.

17:51 - 17:55
Yeah. Knowledge and. Knowledge and safety are the. Are the big ones. And.

17:56 - 17:57
Yeah, yeah.

17:57 - 18:02
You can't. You can't really build up good experience if you don't know what you're doing in the first place.

18:02 - 18:07
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And often, I think, like, one of the experienced paths, like, I know what I'm doing.

18:07 - 18:09
I've done this my whole life. Right. And.

18:09 - 18:10
And most likely they do.

18:10 - 18:14
I'm not saying they don't, but often you go on a course and like, wow, I never really did that

18:14 - 18:17
or never had the opportunity to do a canoe or canoe rescue before.

18:17 - 18:23
And now just going through it, if that ever happened to me, I may be able to, you know, perform

18:23 - 18:27
it a little bit better, especially if it's cold water and you need to really act fast. Right. So.

18:27 - 18:33
Well, I can give you a nod to all of those things, because all of those happened when I did your course last September. So. Yeah, there you go.

18:33 - 18:38
I think I've been paddling for ages, but I don't know what the stroke names are. I'm not.

18:38 - 18:40
I'm not terribly efficient at some of them.

18:40 - 18:44
Some of them were like, oh, I never thought about that before. What a brilliant idea.

18:44 - 18:45
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Right.

18:45 - 18:47
It just improves your efficiency overall, I think.

18:47 - 18:53
Yeah, well, yeah, And I think one of the things, aside from safety, I think one of the things

18:53 - 18:58
I came away with was I've been. I've been a. A tail gunner forever.

18:58 - 19:00
I have been in the back of the boat.

19:00 - 19:05
Like, I don't know that I've ever been in the front of the boat. And until that. Until the course.

19:06 - 19:06
Yeah.

19:06 - 19:10
And I have a much greater appreciation. Thomas is my. Is my.

19:10 - 19:15
My backcountry partner, but I have a much greater appreciation for anybody in particular.

19:15 - 19:17
I now can probably be.

19:17 - 19:22
We can probably be a more efficient team, because I know I much better understand what.

19:22 - 19:25
What he's doing in the front of the boat, so.

19:25 - 19:27
Yeah, for sure. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

19:27 - 19:28
Yeah, that was.

19:28 - 19:31
And you're more willing to switch with them now every now and then.

19:31 - 19:38
No, there's that whole weight balance thing. He's this big around. He weighs 12 pounds.

19:38 - 19:39
It's a good point.

19:39 - 19:43
I don't matter how much gear I put up there when I have to be in the back.

19:44 - 19:45
Yeah, I hear you.

19:47 - 19:52
Completely off topic. Just because you know you're talking about going there for, to hang with the parents.

19:52 - 19:56
Going there for on the French River.

19:56 - 19:58
I know that you deliver a lot of canoes.

19:58 - 20:05
I love, I love seeing the backgrounds when, when you take the shot when you're delivering them on your Instagram account.

20:05 - 20:06
Yeah, yeah.

20:06 - 20:10
How many miles a year, man like you must put a ridiculous amount on the truck.

20:10 - 20:14
Yeah, so I do do a lot of driving, that's for sure.

20:15 - 20:18
But kind of I try to plan it currently anyways.

20:18 - 20:23
And this coming year will be even more, more driving because we've been advertising in the eastern

20:23 - 20:27
provinces and the western provinces for sales of ram canoes.

20:27 - 20:32
So my hope is to have a trailer loads, a trailer load or several trailer loads full to be able

20:32 - 20:32
to drive out there and deliver.

20:33 - 20:37
So I, because of where I pick up the majority of our boats, the, the Winonas get delivered.

20:37 - 20:41
They come out of Minnesota. Winona, Minnesota. And they get delivered.

20:41 - 20:42
So that's kind of nice.

20:42 - 20:45
And they take care of all, all of the details at the border.

20:46 - 20:51
But then with our ram canoes and the skiff canoes, I go and pick them up.

20:51 - 20:55
I have a truck and then I have a trailer currently that fits about 20, 24 boats.

20:55 - 21:00
And so the nice thing is when I'm going in that direction, which is a long drive, I'm covering

21:00 - 21:02
a good part of the province as well, the eastern part of the province.

21:02 - 21:06
So for any deliveries that I have current stock, I deliver out that direction. Right.

21:07 - 21:10
And then on the way back, if somebody's already pre ordered something, I can drop it off on

21:10 - 21:16
the way back Ottawa all into the, you know, Northern Ontario, whatever it may be.

21:16 - 21:17
So that covers the eastern area.

21:17 - 21:25
And then as I mentioned, I have, have our property in the French river which is kind of a central northern location.

21:25 - 21:27
It's a good five hours from our place down here in Niagara.

21:27 - 21:35
But you know, you cover a lot of Ontario population between Niagara and going up through Toronto,

21:35 - 21:37
up up to, through Barry and all that.

21:37 - 21:42
So for deliveries, you know, it's a good excuse to I have to make a delivery right now and you

21:42 - 21:47
know, then I go and spend a day or two at the, @ our place in Alban, French river or we get

21:47 - 21:51
up to Alban and then I, I go further and deliver up into Sudbury, Timmins or whatever it may be.

21:51 - 21:54
My in laws live in, you know, in Sound area, South Owen Sound, Flesherton.

21:54 - 21:55
So going up Highway 6.

21:55 - 22:01
And covering up Guelph and Cambridge and Waterloo is, you know, up that direction is nuts. Nuts. Never an issue either.

22:01 - 22:04
We don't tend to get tons of business from like Windsor area.

22:04 - 22:05
It seems like it's a.

22:05 - 22:11
I don't know, there's some different things going on down there or not or I haven't marketed much down there, but.

22:11 - 22:15
So we cover a good part of the province that way.

22:15 - 22:19
I don't know how many kilometers. That's a lot. Definitely.

22:19 - 22:27
I had a minivan I was doing this all with for a long time and I was pulling us just a six trailer canoe. Canoe trailer.

22:27 - 22:28
Yeah, yeah.

22:28 - 22:32
And then I'd put two on my roof right of the minivan.

22:32 - 22:34
So I'd only ever be able to pick up eight canoes from Raum.

22:34 - 22:40
And we didn't have a skiff at the time, so it was a lot more smaller scale and our business wasn't as big.

22:40 - 22:46
But so as things have been word of mouth been spreading and growing and that's just.

22:46 - 22:51
We've been able to sell more canoes each year. Even in the pandemic.

22:51 - 22:55
Like after the pandemic and the kind of the explosion of sales with.

22:55 - 22:59
With COVID we're still growing, which is a great sign. Yeah.

22:59 - 23:01
So we cover a lot of the province that way.

23:01 - 23:03
Funny enough, I had the.

23:03 - 23:06
The canoe that I've sold the furthest away from our.

23:06 - 23:09
Our house was in Dryden, Ontario.

23:09 - 23:13
So that's up close to the Manitoba border. Really?

23:13 - 23:14
Yeah.

23:14 - 23:15
Right. So it's a hike.

23:15 - 23:22
And my plan was, you know, well, I'll be delivering canoes into Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta in the spring.

23:22 - 23:25
And the guy agreed for that to do that, no problem.

23:25 - 23:30
And then I had a customer come by and he was connected with Tomogamy friends at Tomogamy, like your shirt there.

23:30 - 23:34
And we had a good conversation, some good chats and stuff. And. Yeah.

23:34 - 23:41
And he, he ends up telling me, you know, I'm going to see my mom in, in Dryden. I'm like, really?

23:41 - 23:43
Would you want to strap a canoe on?

23:43 - 23:45
Like, would you be interested if I pay you to deliver this canoe?

23:45 - 23:47
He's like, sure, I'll do that. No problem.

23:47 - 23:48
And he took it up. The guy was happy.

23:48 - 23:54
The guy that got it was happy and, and super grateful that this gentleman Ted was able to help us out that way.

23:54 - 23:59
So like the canoeing community really impresses me in general that way. The.

23:59 - 24:01
It's a community you can trust, I find. Right.

24:01 - 24:02
You don't have any issues.

24:02 - 24:06
I often have customers that will show up to my House because our businesses ran out of our house

24:06 - 24:09
and people often ask, well, when are you going to get a storefront?

24:09 - 24:11
I'm like, I really don't want a storefront.

24:11 - 24:12
Then it'll be chained to it.

24:12 - 24:16
It's like a, you know, and I like the freedom be able to come and go and customers can show

24:16 - 24:19
up here at 9:00 if I'm home and make things work, whatever.

24:19 - 24:23
But often if I'm not here, I just talk them through going to the backyard and here's where you

24:23 - 24:28
find the yolks, grab one, leave the money on the counter, send me an E transfer, whatever, and

24:28 - 24:29
kind of laugh about it.

24:30 - 24:35
Yeah, I don't know how much I should put out there. Right. But it's nice.

24:35 - 24:41
I love being able to trust people and I've always found like, people are great that way. So yeah, it's. You learn.

24:41 - 24:44
I think one of the other things I was thinking about when I was thinking what I might share

24:44 - 24:47
with you today, know those thoughts go through your head.

24:47 - 24:48
What are we going to be talking about? Right.

24:48 - 24:54
But one of the great things is the different types of people you meet, the different types of paddlers. Right.

24:54 - 25:00
When I first got thing into things like, okay, the, the YouTube community, this is the canoeing community. This is it.

25:00 - 25:03
No, it's, it's so beyond that. Right.

25:03 - 25:08
That's a, a really neat factor and a really cool community and it's its own niche in itself.

25:09 - 25:14
But the families like you mentioned, that's really why you, you run this podcast, is to connect

25:14 - 25:18
with families and other families that have been doing this and share your experiences with families.

25:18 - 25:22
So there's families, there's the, the new paddlers that are just getting into it.

25:22 - 25:24
There's paddlers that have been doing this forever.

25:25 - 25:28
There's the white water community, there's the backcountry community.

25:28 - 25:34
One of my favorites is, well, is like a first generation Canadian that's just moved to our country

25:34 - 25:39
and they want to start canoeing because they really believe this is a Canadian experience, which,

25:39 - 25:40
which I really believe it is.

25:40 - 25:44
And to be able to be a small part of their journey of learning that and figuring that out and

25:45 - 25:47
getting the right product or the right boat to, to start.

25:48 - 25:49
It's a really special thing as well.

25:49 - 25:53
So there's, there's so many different facets of the canoeing community.

25:53 - 25:59
We're, we're up here frozen in the north, living out of our igloos and we've developed our own ways of doing things.

25:59 - 26:02
Yeah, most definitely that's true. That's for sure. Yeah.

26:03 - 26:08
Cool. I, I thinking about the Raum and the, what was the, the skiff? No, skip.

26:08 - 26:10
Skiff. Skiff. Skiff.

26:10 - 26:12
Is the, is the skiff.

26:12 - 26:15
Because I think you mentioned something in the realm of whitewater.

26:15 - 26:16
Like, is it more of a.

26:17 - 26:18
I don't know what the right brand. Right.

26:18 - 26:21
Like tough coats, that kind of a deal.

26:21 - 26:25
Like, is it, is it more hardy canoe, Right.

26:25 - 26:34
So a skiff, they've been around a long time and if you go back a little bit to Royal X was a material. Right.

26:34 - 26:39
That's many people in the community know about, but, but ceased to exist when the company that

26:39 - 26:42
owned it stopped producing it.

26:42 - 26:47
And that affected all canoe manufacturers that were producing Royalex boats.

26:47 - 26:50
And there was a lot of them being pumped out onto the market, from my understanding. So a skiff.

26:50 - 26:55
The owner of a skiff tried to figure out a way to replicate that Royal X, and it didn't.

26:55 - 26:58
It's not the exact same, but it's its own material.

26:58 - 27:01
It's called T4MX is the material. Right.

27:02 - 27:04
And so it has a foam core.

27:04 - 27:09
And in the middle of it, I have a piece of it that I got from the factory when I went to be able to show customers. It's kind of neat.

27:09 - 27:13
And then it's sandwiched between two pieces of polyethylene plastic.

27:13 - 27:16
So it makes a boat a lot lighter.

27:16 - 27:20
So it makes a plastic boat a lot lighter, but still extremely durable.

27:20 - 27:26
So when you're whitewater paddling or even just, you know, you want a boat that you can just

27:26 - 27:31
beat up and drag over beaver dams or drag up on shore and you're not having to worry about babying

27:31 - 27:34
that $5,000 beautiful Kevlar canoe. Right.

27:34 - 27:38
Which I really appreciate with my kids and my dogs, for instance, it's a whole different game

27:38 - 27:41
when you go with that nice canoe and you're thinking, okay, I gotta jump out of the boat and

27:41 - 27:43
I don't want to just paddle up onto shore.

27:43 - 27:47
And until you get those first few scratches and then just this is life, right?

27:47 - 27:50
You do your own, your gel coat repairs and all that.

27:50 - 27:56
But it's, yeah, it's a lightweight plastic canoe which they produce in many different molds.

27:56 - 28:05
So you have it in just touring boats, like your 17, 16, 15 foot prospectors, they have like just recreational style canoes.

28:06 - 28:07
The Scout they came out with this year.

28:07 - 28:12
So for cottage boats, that sort of thing, they have some solo options, the Adirondack and the

28:12 - 28:15
Echo that are still made of this material. So it's still lightweight.

28:15 - 28:17
So you can portage it Fairly easy.

28:17 - 28:22
Had a customer here yesterday, a girl in university and she's trying to find something lightweight.

28:22 - 28:28
But the beauty is when you go into a lightweight solo Kevlar boat, you're still talking three

28:28 - 28:30
to five thousand depending on the boat.

28:30 - 28:35
Whereas this, you're into 1500 for, for an Adirondack. So it's extremely popular.

28:35 - 28:42
Price points and boat, because of the price point, it's still lightweight enough and still does the job. Right. So.

28:42 - 28:49
And then you have the whole other white water side of their, their models that are very particular.

28:49 - 28:53
I don't know as well about the white water boats. I'm learning about them.

28:53 - 29:01
The leg lead I think it is and several other models that they, they have that are primarily for white water. I know better.

29:01 - 29:08
The Pocket Canyon and the Canyon they just have a lot more rocker to them but the material still T4M.

29:08 - 29:12
So you can, you're not worried about if you get wrapped around a rock, there's dogs going, somebody

29:13 - 29:14
locked the door on a, on a car.

29:15 - 29:17
If you get going, there's some, a video out there.

29:17 - 29:20
You know, some guys, I can't remember who they are, they're YouTubers.

29:20 - 29:23
They wrapped one of their skiff boats around a rock.

29:24 - 29:27
They able to get it out, punch it out and just keep paddling.

29:27 - 29:29
Keep paddling. I know, I saw that too.

29:29 - 29:32
Yeah. So lot different than some of the options.

29:32 - 29:35
You still have composite options for white water.

29:35 - 29:40
You know there's, there's Nova Craft's tough stuff and Raum actually makes a similar product

29:40 - 29:43
as well, but it's still composite.

29:43 - 29:45
You hit a rock and you smash it.

29:45 - 29:47
It's the, the effect is going to be a little different. Right.

29:47 - 29:52
So and then a skiff has the whole fishing side as well. Right.

29:52 - 29:59
Larger boats for, for fishing and you can put their motors in the back of them on and that sort of thing. So square sterns.

29:59 - 30:00
So they have a lot of different options with that.

30:00 - 30:02
The, the focus there really is the fact that it's T4 mix.

30:02 - 30:08
It's this lightweight, the lightest weight plastic option for a canoe on the market.

30:08 - 30:11
Unless you can find a gem of a royal X somewhere out there.

30:11 - 30:19
Weight comparison. So I don't know that 16 style prospector style in, you know, in, in Kevlar

30:19 - 30:21
versus the, the T4 Max.

30:21 - 30:23
What kind of weight difference are we looking at?

30:24 - 30:31
Yeah, so a T4 mix is going to be a 16 foot prospector T4 mix is going to be 65 pounds without

30:31 - 30:34
any outfitting options on it or skid plates, that sort of thing.

30:34 - 30:42
And then you Know the, the average 16 foot prospector Kevlar is in the 40 pound range. 42 give

30:42 - 30:43
or take, depending on what.

30:43 - 30:48
You're still not crazy. It's not, you're not like, you're not doubling, you're, you're no 50. So.

30:48 - 30:53
Yeah, but the, the, the benefit is like if you get into a polyethylene plastic canoe, right.

30:53 - 30:59
Like a Nova Craft SP3 or an old Town plastic, I'm not too sure what's what their options are,

30:59 - 31:05
but you're talking 70, 80, you know, £90, like that can be.

31:05 - 31:09
I don't, I don't want to say the exact weight of those ones, but they're a lot heavier. Right.

31:09 - 31:10
So it's a big difference.

31:10 - 31:12
Still manageable at that 65 pound range.

31:12 - 31:14
Another canoe.

31:14 - 31:14
Sweet.

31:15 - 31:19
Was it someone that you were following that has how many canoes?

31:19 - 31:26
Oh, so he's using this to justify Dave Canoe Collector on Instagram stuff. Canoe collector, yeah.

31:26 - 31:26
Yeah.

31:26 - 31:28
He's had, he has owned. Don't.

31:28 - 31:32
Don't hold me to it. 28 canoes.

31:32 - 31:34
Yeah, he's got a few. Yeah, yeah.

31:34 - 31:39
And he's talking about, yeah, he's talking about getting in a skiff canoe for next year maybe.

31:39 - 31:42
I think he just posted something with that too. Right. So. Yeah, yeah.

31:43 - 31:44
Kayaks as well. Right?

31:44 - 31:49
We do. We're not primarily a kayak dealer in the sense that's not our main focus.

31:49 - 31:50
Our main focus is canoeing.

31:50 - 31:56
But when we started, we started with Winona as I mentioned, and Winona owns Current Designs

31:56 - 32:00
Kayaks, which is a very popular brand kayak, especially in the sea kayaking community.

32:00 - 32:05
And then they made some really, really nice recreational option kayaks as well.

32:05 - 32:10
So we brought in the recreational kayaks originally and we did pretty well with those during

32:10 - 32:13
COVID that sort of thing recently.

32:13 - 32:20
Last year we didn't have any kayaks in stock, but this past year Winona decided to sell their,

32:20 - 32:25
their current designs branch of their business and just get back focused to their canoes.

32:25 - 32:31
And they, they have had a pretty good deal on their recreational polyethylene plastic kayak.

32:31 - 32:33
So we brought a bunch of those in.

32:33 - 32:35
I think I have 17 or 18 of them.

32:35 - 32:38
So we'll have a few for this year and then we'll see where that goes.

32:38 - 32:42
There's a local guy in our area here, he goes by Kayak Ontario.

32:42 - 32:49
He has a pretty big Kayak Ontario Facebook page that's kind of morphed into its own thing, but it's his own business.

32:50 - 32:53
Aaron and his wife got a chance to meet them the other day if you're interested.

32:53 - 32:56
I don't know if you do kayaking much stuff on your podcast, but you should reach out to them

32:56 - 33:04
if you are and they, they focus on, on a lot of that courses through Paddle Canada and sea kayaking trips and all that. So.

33:04 - 33:06
Sorry. Writing down kayak, Ontario.

33:06 - 33:08
Yeah, no, honestly, I'll put you in touch with him.

33:08 - 33:11
It's a great guy and for me it's a, it's a, it's a different game.

33:11 - 33:16
I like kayaking, but I don't know enough about it and I wouldn't want to, you know, get it if

33:16 - 33:22
you bring a five, six thousand dollar kayak and they're very particular like a kayaker size

33:22 - 33:24
of boats and all that sort of stuff.

33:24 - 33:28
It's a little different than the, the canoeing game where you know, a 16th prospector is going

33:28 - 33:29
to fit a lot of people.

33:29 - 33:34
But there's still also obviously a lot of different options in canoes as well when you get into

33:34 - 33:37
solo paddling and, or chirping boats, that sort of thing.

33:37 - 33:41
Yeah, well, we talked to paddle heads and they're big, big.

33:41 - 33:44
I mean they do both, but they love fishing from kayaks.

33:44 - 33:44
Yes.

33:44 - 33:50
That's an interesting concept. You know, just a wider platform for you, so less tippy and stuff.

33:50 - 33:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Different game.

33:53 - 33:59
I like the portage. I don't, I don't like the portage, but I like to carry my, my canoe, my Kevlar canoe.

33:59 - 34:03
When I get into kayak, it would be.

34:03 - 34:03
Yeah.

34:03 - 34:05
Old, crippled, bad.

34:05 - 34:11
Yeah, we get a lot of, A lot of people that are transitioning from kayaking, sea kayaking and

34:11 - 34:17
they, they want a canoe, but so they get into a solo canoe like a Ram Rebel or some of our Winona

34:17 - 34:18
options, the wilderness and that sort of thing.

34:18 - 34:22
And they can then put their dog in it and, and pack some stuff.

34:22 - 34:24
And so it still has a little bit of.

34:24 - 34:27
They can use their double blade and get going pretty good.

34:27 - 34:32
There's quite a bit of tumble home on the Rebel and so they, it's a good transition too.

34:32 - 34:35
So different people, they do different things at different points in their lives. Right, cool.

34:35 - 34:40
Well, and yeah, and you can use, so you can use a double blade in, in something that's got like

34:40 - 34:45
a nice tumble home on it or, or you can get into doing single blading, which is a. Yeah. Different game. So.

34:45 - 34:46
Yeah, exactly.

34:46 - 34:49
Cool. All right. January. Come on, man.

34:50 - 34:53
Yeah, we'll get there. Hey, it goes fast. Yeah.

34:53 - 34:56
What do you guys do anything in the winter to pass your time or.

34:57 - 35:02
We've been Trying. The last couple years we've been looking at different things and we actually I almost.

35:03 - 35:08
Pamela and our youngest are. He. They're heading to Mexico. Nice.

35:08 - 35:10
Third week in February I think.

35:10 - 35:12
Second and third week in February for his reading.

35:12 - 35:13
Right? Yeah.

35:13 - 35:21
So Thomas and I were actually trying to do a winter camping thing with some other fellows and I can't.

35:21 - 35:23
I can't dig up enough bodies.

35:23 - 35:26
Thomas got a contract for work. It's like.

35:26 - 35:29
Yeah. So it's a different game, eh? Yeah.

35:30 - 35:30
We'll keep trying.

35:30 - 35:34
Not as much if it's not your like your go to like canoeing is. Right.

35:34 - 35:37
It's hard to get all that like super motivated to.

35:37 - 35:39
Or cancel your work to go. To go. Right.

35:39 - 35:43
Or I'm a little top one and I have a canoe trip. Right.

35:43 - 35:47
Yeah, exactly. Which I'm. I mean for me, for me it's easy. I just go okay.

35:47 - 35:48
I'm taking these days off.

35:48 - 35:49
Good for you.

35:49 - 35:51
Yeah. Yeah. For him it's.

35:51 - 35:53
It's a little bit different because it's contract based.

35:53 - 35:56
So if he's got a window where he's. Which is.

35:56 - 36:01
I think it's a 16 day contract or something, it's pretty, pretty tough to do it.

36:02 - 36:04
Take a couple of those days off. It's not. He's.

36:04 - 36:06
They just won't get the contract. So.

36:07 - 36:08
Yeah, that makes sense for sure.

36:08 - 36:11
And I don't want a broke kid eating all my food and stuff.

36:11 - 36:14
Right. Yeah. And living with you the rest of your life.

36:14 - 36:15
Exactly.

36:16 - 36:16
Or maybe you do.

36:16 - 36:17
That's it for us for today.

36:17 - 36:21
Thank you so much to our special guest Greg Robertson from the Organic Boat Shop.

36:21 - 36:27
Please do check him out on all the social media things and on his website and if you're looking

36:27 - 36:33
to either purchase a canoe, he seems like a good guy to set you up with exactly the right thing that you need.

36:34 - 36:36
Please do reach out to us if you'd like to talk to us.

36:36 - 36:41
We are on all the social media as well and we would love it if you subscribed on YouTube.

36:41 - 36:50
Otherwise you can email us anytime@hiupergoodcamping.com that's hiupergcamping.com we will talk to you again soon. Bye.