How a Failed Hike Sparked a Lightweight Gear Revolution

A dream trail broke his knees and changed his life—Steve Evans went from hauling “light” heavy gear to engineering tools that feel like cheating on a portage. We bring you the origin story of Suluk 46, where a licensed mechanical engineer applies stress analysis and real-world testing to build ultralight, ultra-strong equipment that actually earns its place in your pack. From a titanium-and-carbon ice axe born for Nepal, to award-winning tent stakes, to a folding saw that weighs like a candy bar, Steve shows how obsession, iteration, and field time create gear that lasts.

We explore the design logic behind two very different saw families—an ultralight buck saw and slim folding pull saws built around Silky blades—plus the realities of supply, custom blade development in Sweden, and choosing performance without extra grams. You’ll hear the surprisingly relatable story of a packable grill that snaps together at camp and disappears into a small tube when you hike out, solving the “gross site grate” problem without adding bulk. We also dig into the market divide between canoe trippers and ultralight hikers, why product choices shift with terrain and portages, and how to think about comfort versus weight when you’re planning multi-day routes.

Looking ahead, Steve teases a carbon fibre, refillable fuel canister with a titanium valve assembly—a TSSA-informed answer to disposable isobutane canisters that could save weight, reduce waste, and make fuel management smarter on long trips. Along the way, we talk about building a small, family-powered company, launching products at Canadian outdoor shows, and redefining success around time outside, not just scale. If you care about backpacking gear, canoe tripping essentials, and thoughtful design that starts on the trail and ends at your workbench, this conversation will spark ideas for your next kit rebuild.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Steve Evans of Suluk 46
• 1:05 Serendipitous City Encounters
• 2:12 From Engineer to Gear Maker
• 4:18 Ultralight Awakening After Trail Failure
• 6:30 The First Product: Titanium Ice Axe
• 8:10 Growing a Garage Startup
• 9:45 Naming Suluk 46 and Its Meaning
• 12:20 Beyond the Axe: Trowels, Stoves, Stakes
• 14:05 Why Two Saws: Buck vs Fold
• 16:30 Partnering on Blades and New Prototypes
• 18:10 Designing for Real Trips and Testing
• 19:45 The Ultralight Packable Grill Story
• 22:00 Market Differences: Canoe vs Backpack
• 24:20 Refillable Fuel and Carbon Fibre Canisters
• 27:00 Small Team, Family at Trade Shows
• 28:25 Trips, Film Teaser, Future Launches
• 30:10 Redefining Success and Work-Life Balance
• 32:20 Closing Thanks and Where to Find Steve

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:00

Hello and good day. Hey, welcome to the Super Good Camping Podcast. My name is Pamela.

SPEAKER_01: 0:04

I'm Tim.

SPEAKER_03: 0:05

And we are from Supergoodcamping.com. We're here because we had a mission to inspire other people to get outside and enjoy camping adventures such as we have as a family. Today's guest loves to adventure in the backcountry, being that he is also a mechanical engineer. He loves to design and build ultra-light, ultra high strength gear for backcountry camping. Please welcome super nice, super smart. Steve Evans of SueLuk 46.

unknown: 0:27

Yay!

SPEAKER_00: 0:28

Welcome! Thank you very much. Well, that's a wonderful intro. And no stuttering, like you just nailed it right there.

SPEAKER_01: 0:36

She does this once a week for about 40 some odd weeks a year.

SPEAKER_00: 0:41

So yeah, yeah, you got a down pat. Well, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. It's good to see you guys.

SPEAKER_01: 0:47

It's always great to see you. So so just to throw it out to the audience, we've we run into Steve on occasion. We we live in the same city, and usually we know that we've run into Steve because he yells out across, oh, I don't know, the lobby at Roy Thompson Hall, hey, super good camping. I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12

Being that we live in the same city and we have similar taste.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15

It's not surprising that he's there for it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17

It's just so this was at uh National Geographic Live, which was was amazing. We were like, hey.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25

I forgot about that story. I have seasons tickets for probably the last like decade, and I was go I usually meet my wife just outside in the lobby. I can't was it it was after the show, right? Yeah, because you guys are going downstairs, probably pick the subway or something. Like, wait, it's super good camping. And then I I was like, if I just scream out Tim, he's no one's gonna know, he's not gonna turn his head around. So anyway, well I made a season.

SPEAKER_01: 1:48

And same deal up at Paddler Co-op because apparently you said you you said Tim, Tim, Tim, super good camping.

SPEAKER_00: 1:58

Yeah, that's kind of it's kind of funny that we've bumped into each other randomly numerous times in the single year.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04

I totally expect to see you at the you know adventure shows and stuff like that, but not just in the middle of like no one. So crazy stuff. Uh so being that you're a mechanical engineer, how how does that how does that parlay into what you do for to look 46? Like how did I understand that you need to be an engineer to make I've seen all of your stuff, it's awesome. How did how what made it you go, oh well I can make all this cool gear? Was it because you were doing ultralight stuff? Stuff that would be happier to have ultralight gear, and you went, I can make a better one of those, I can do uh something, or maybe I can, you know, whether it's the tent pegs or the saws or you know.

SPEAKER_00: 2:50

Yeah, so there's a like a little story that I can tell sort of uh how it all started. Um so yeah, I'm a mechanical engineer, I'm licensed professional engineer in Ontario. Um, and I kind of grew up in doing robotics and automation uh when after I graduated in around 1999 and kind of started in a mostly focused on nuclear tooling and automation for nuclear reactors. That's sort of what I what I did for you know decades almost. And I grew up as like a flatwater paddler with my dad, cut my teeth in the bush up in Kalarney Provincial Park, like used to go up there multiple times a year. And then he passed away when I was in uh when I was younger in high school, actually. And so then I I continued, but for some reason, like the internet wasn't super prevalent then, and I didn't really know about solo paddling. I didn't even know that was really a thing. I don't know how. I just I just didn't. And so I started backpacking like in the early 2000s, except I had all canoeing gear. And uh at the time there was, you know, like a light tent would be probably like five pounds, and a light sleeping bag would be like three pounds, and you'd be backpacking with um like 80 pounds of gear kind of thing. And in the mid-2000s, I tried to do the Lacloche Silhouette Trail uh in Colorado Provincial Park. It was like a dream of mine since I was younger, and I failed immediately on like day two. Actually, for those that know the trail, I went to go do it counterclockwise. I started at George Lake, and I had to bushwhack at Bell Lake access point three days later with like broken knees, not broken knees, but like you know, my knees are just killing me. And this is when I was young, this is 15 years ago, I was 32 years old, I was like in phenomenal shape. And uh, so then back then uh forums were really popular, not so much like I don't if Facebook wasn't really big or whatever. So I joined a forum called Backpacking Light, and the guy that owns it, uh it's now like a full website, his name's Ryan Jordan, and there was like a section called Make Your Own Gear, and it was all these fanatical backpackers, like people doing the Appalachian Trail, and they'd be on the trail for you know three months or six months doing the CDT or the PCT, those are the big trails kind of down there. And I was like, you can sleep under a tarp that you like sew yourself, sort of thing. And I I put together um like an ultralight kit where like all of your gear and stove and everything in your backpack would weigh like eight pounds kind of thing. Like it would be super, it's very minimalistic, it's not not super comfortable or anything, no chairs. And um, yeah, I went and you know, ripped the Laclache Silhouette trail in like four days at the time. That was like pretty good. And then I I started backpacking all this all these trails, and uh, I don't even know if you guys know this, but I I've backpacked every single multi-day backpacking trail in a provincial park in Ontario. It took me seven years to complete the project. Yeah, and I was I actually started a book. Kevin Callan knows this, and so does Jeff from Jeff's Maps, because Jeff was gonna do the um the maps for the book. This is going back years ago, and then uh long story short, then I started getting into like uh a little bit more um like some more advanced stuff. I started traveling places like in the late 2000s, and I was going to Nepal for I used to climb a lot in uh I think I was going in 2006 or 2007, and I wanted a lightweight ice axe, and there wasn't really anything on the market. And in this make your own gear forum, um, there was all these really competent individuals that like worked at all these places because climbers and backpackers and paddlers, you know, they all have this passion, but then you learn there's like lawyers and real estate agents and rocket scientists and like all this stuff. And so I built, I designed and built a titanium and carbon fiber ice axe for my own personal use through the help with like um all these people. I remember one of the guys in the forum, I'll never forget this. He was like, I'm an RD engineer for Aldeela carbon fiber in the States. We make all the shafts for Nike, and you know, to get a custom carbon fiber shaft would probably be like$50,000. He's like, Oh, we'll do it in our spare time for you. Just give me a couple axes, and I was like, Okay, that's cool, like just you know, for fun. So I built the Isaacs and uh came back from my trip, and then everybody was asking for it. So I put up uh a website in 2008, and I just had a single item on it, the ice axe. And I sold like 20 of them the first year, and I remember telling my wife, you know, I made like 2500 bucks or something like that. And I remember telling my wife, if I can make two thousand dollars a year on the side, because I had a full-time job at the time, I can pay for like a vacation for us every year, and it won't go, it won't like uh take away from our income. So to me, the the 2500 bucks was kind of like a success, and then it sort of stemmed from there. So then over the years, I was kind of like looking at what's available, and I'm like, well, I'm an engineer and I can do stress analysis and calculations and manufacturing and all that type of stuff. So um, probably in 2010, two years later, is when I rented like a small, I actually rented a garage, like a storage unit with power, and I purchased at that time, you know, I had like a lathe and a milling machine and sandblasters and stuff like that. So I started manufacturing small batches of just weird things, and these are like more simpler products that we we do now because now we've got a pretty big supply chain and stuff like that. And so then over the years, it's kind of every year kind of grew a little bit and grew a little bit, and then in 2015, I was still working full-time, and at this point, I was like a general manager of like a kind of like a big company sort of thing. So it'd been, you know, I was 40-ish or so, yeah, maybe not 40, 38. And the the interest kept growing, and then I started getting people reaching out for like like retailers, and I was like, I've never done like retail packaging, I have no idea how to do this kind of thing. And then I met an individual in the States named Devin, and he had had a little startup company because when you're like in the outdoor industry, you're kind of friends with other companies, so you know, like Ado Tech or the Agua guys, you know, we'll we'll call them up when we're dealing with like all the tariff stuff that's happening right now. There's kind of like a little bit of us, we're we're like competitors, but we're kind of not, you know. I mean, like we're there's lots of room in the industry for small Canadian businesses, so we kind of work together. And so retailers were chatting me. And uh, I had a company down in the States reach out to me that kind of said, We love what you're doing, but we we can kind of tell you don't know what you're doing. And so they and I was like, Yeah, I have no idea what I'm doing. So then I uh they put together like a little bit of a marketing plan that's sort of when I launched, like you know, I didn't know even know about Instagram and all that type of stuff, you know. So they they uh launched all that stuff, they did proper product photos, we redid the website, and then by about 20 like 18, 2019, you know, is when I was like, okay, it's it's big enough that I have to start making some some adjustments. So then um I partnered with a company for a few years where I would where they were doing their own work and I was doing my own work, and so we would share a facility, and then things didn't work out, you know, it's just like two CEOs trying to work together, we're bumping heads and whatnot. So then in 2021, got my own unit and then fully on my own now. So that's the story, and so uh yeah, do you need to be an engineer? I mean, it certainly helps for sure, but there's lots of uh companies that just got a great idea, and you you pay an engineer to do some of the more technical stuff, so we just you know, so oh and I want to sorry, one more thing I want to tell you really quickly because everyone always asks. So Suec 46, the 46, everybody always asks that so in I had to come up with a name in 2008, and I had started it. So the company was actually used to be called Ev Tech because my last name is Evans, and it was technology, so Evans Technologies. So I started EvTech, and then over the years, it was like, I don't know if this is such a good name for a company. So I came up with the name in 2008, but never incorporated it, and then I actually changed my incorporated name. I can't remember when, this is like a decade later or something. So Suluk is like a uh like an Inu evaluate name, like a Western Arctic dialect for the Inuit. Um, it means feather. It can actually translate to a couple different things, but when I was thinking of it, I'm like, well, I want to I want like I wanted to call it like you know something lightweight, because we do lightweight stuff, but I wanted to kind of like have an ode to like you know the original ultralighters of Canada, like the ones that can kind of survive off the land. And you know, when I think of the Inuit lands and and the nort northern peoples and whatnot, it was always kind of like I valued what they valued. So I I chose a word, actually went through a big process of contacting some of like the communities to make sure it was like like like that it was right, it was correct. I didn't want to use like an incorrect term. So Suluk and the number 46 is the line of latitude that runs across Silver Peak in Killarney Provincial Park. And when I was younger, this is gonna sound so crazy. Um, so my my father passed away when I was uh in high school, it was pretty tragic of cancer. And our dream, like when I was younger, I'd always be like, Dad, one day I want to go and uh climb uh Silver Peak. And to me, Silver Peak was Mount Everest. You know, I mean you're in grade six. And uh I never got to do it, so then I was like, Oh, I want to like put this in my company name. And I remember I was driving by at like um or I saw like a gas station in the States, and I saw that 76 gas station with the little logo in the corner, and I was like, I'm gonna call my graphic arts buddy, and I got a buddy named Trevor Bowman does graphic arts. I told him my idea and I sketched it out, and he's like, sick, let me put a logo together for you. And that's so that's where the the it came from. And the name is super hard to pronounce, and everyone kind of pronounces it differently, but it's Suluk 46, and I don't know if it was a good idea, but it's no, it's great because I I've been I've known you for a little while now, and we I've certainly known of you for even longer than that, and I've always kind of wondered like where the hell did that come from?

SPEAKER_01: 12:27

Where it what yeah, yeah, I think at some point I probably did too.

SPEAKER_00: 12:33

I don't know why. There was there was a lot of thought put into it. I just don't know if it was like a good thought process or not, but it you know it was it was well thought out at the time.

SPEAKER_01: 12:43

No, it's a good one, and it and it is, you're right. It's uh it's unusual enough to stick in somebody's head. Like it's you know, you can have the easy peasy ones and then you're you're trying to scratch your head going, you know, I what's what uh I can't remember what the name is, but that yours yours sticks. I I like it. What so you started with the ice axe? What did you sort of get into after that?

SPEAKER_00: 13:06

So um, you know, I I this might not be verified info, I'd have to go back and check, but I remember another um like kind of like when a light went off. So the the the ice axe was like I'd never even thought about starting a website and and selling it, but and then I was like, oh, maybe I should like do this. Um so I did it, and then I was thinking of kind of my next product, and there were some times when I was actually like by I used to sell this is so weird, like sleeping mats and stuff. I used to get like sleeping mats made by uh there's actually a company in Ontario that would do it, and so I I got them to make it. It was kind of like a little bit of a flop, like you can't compete with Thermorest and and those guys. But I remember another big part of the business was me reading through some forums in like I don't know, must have been like 2010, 2011, I think around 2011, because I remember I launched a titanium trowel, which was a pretty simple product to make. And the reason why I did it was I had seen a uh company in the States, I have no idea who it would have been at this point, and they said they that they had an ad on the forum, and it was like for uh celebrating our 1000th trowel sale of the year, uh, and they had some special. And in my mind, I was like, that guy sold a thousand trowels in a year. I'm like, it's the easiest, like, and I and in my mind, I was like, it's not even that good. Like, I can totally make a better trowel. So I went down, like you know, designed it all up and made it all funky and whatnot. It's it's evolved huge. I still sell trowels, it's still a huge product for us, but it's very different. But I remember that was a big thing where I'm like, oh, maybe I can sell more than like a hundred items a year, maybe I can sell a thousand sort of thing. So I think it was it was probably the trowel. I know I did a really uh I did a wood stove, which we call the Una stove, which doesn't have a huge following in the community uh canoeing community or like the climbing or whatever, but for um people who are on long trips, fuel becomes like a big issue when you're doing like a three-month trip or something like that. Actually, even for me, when I go do like a three-week trip or something up north, uh it's really hard to to manage fuel because you're just bringing so much in. So if you can have like a small twig stove, so I used to make this little I don't even have one around here, but a really small twig stove. And I remember the the leading brand at the time was called the Bush Buddy, and it was a guy named Fritz, I think he was out in BC or something, and he was he seemed at the time, you know, this is 15 years ago, as the guy, and he was making uh stainless steel versions, and I contacted him and said, I want to make a taint stain uh titanium version, and he would he wasn't interested in working with me, so then I was like, Okay, well, I'll make my own. So then I uh I made my own uh titanium version, and then uh an interesting thing with that, there's a company called Enlightened Equipment that's actually quite big now down in the States. They make uh lightweight like sleeping bags and stuff. And I remember um me and him had worked together on a project uh a couple years ago, and and he had contacted me and was like, I really like that stove, I want to uh carry them in my store. And I was like, you know, this is around coming back to the 2015 where I was like, retail products? Like, I don't even know how I got to get like a UPC code. Like, how do you do this? So, and then from there, uh I you know I don't remember because we have about 40 some odd products at this point. You know, we do the the all different variations of potlifters, we have the saws, we have a bunch of the stoves, and we've retired products over the years. I used to do a lot of alcohol stoves, but they've with the um popularity, like as technology changes, you know, canister stoves are really good now. There used to not be really good lightweight canister stoves, so everybody was using like alcohol and ezbit and wood. So we're slightly moving away from that, focusing a little bit more on the heavier technology stuff. But that's sort of the the pros as went between potlifters, saws. I'm thinking what else I got here, carbon fiber stuff, some tent stakes are really good. Uh, we won some awards on the tent stakes. Those were those came out sometime in like seven or eight years ago.

SPEAKER_01: 17:02

Little side note, Thomas has determined that we're going to go to every show that you're at for the next about seven years so he can collect enough free tent stakes from you so that we can that was at the Hamilton Outdoor Adventure show.

SPEAKER_00: 17:19

I I made I made like 400 D 400 defects. Like they were they were slightly defective, and I was like, Oh, I can't sell these. What do I do with them? And my wife was like, just give them away. And I was like, Alright, cool. So I just gave them away. Yeah. There'll be more coming out because I've got a every time you make like a couple thousand of them, you've got like a bunch that are all kind of like not pretty or you know, just have like just can't be included.

SPEAKER_01: 17:46

Right on. So cool. I I see that you've got two different types of saws. You've got you've got a buck style, and then you've got I I don't even I don't know what you call it. I I always think of it as like a a hand saw because it's a flip-out, right? And it's much smaller, much it's a single sort of deal.

SPEAKER_00: 18:06

Yeah, um, there's a good story of that as well. And this is probably pretty typical because I'm um I go on a lot of trips each year. Like I take several months off each year to go on trips. So most of the gear that I sell I use. Like, you know, if there's ever a time that I won't really use the gear, I might stop selling it, unless it's just like selling like crazy. But um, I think there's a lot of people like me, and I was looking for I never wanted a saw. Well, I shouldn't say I never want a saw. The saw that I had when I used to canoe was was quite large, it was a big saw. And so I just wanted something small. And so I made that the first saw, we call it the Uki Bok saw, and uh, I don't have one here either. But um I I made one and I used it for probably like a year and a half just on my own. Like I just designed it and kind of made it, and then I'm making YouTube videos and stuff, and people are asking for it. So I'm like, okay, well, I was never gonna bring a saw to the market because I didn't think you know backpackers would really use a saw. So I designed it as light as possible. It's it's ridiculously light, it weighs like five ounces, like it's the same weight as a Snickers bar, but it's small, right? It's it's it's small, and um and uh at the time, so I I brought it to market and then I I gave it out to a bunch of people to try, and I think it was uh Martin Pine Pine Martin, you know, the um is from Huntsville. I sent him, I'm pretty sure it was him, I sent him one, and um he he gave me a bunch of feedback on it, and he's like, Hey, have you ever seen like these Silky style saws? And I was like, Yeah, I have. And um, I I had a couple because I think they're great, whatever, but I didn't think there was I thought people preferred a buck saw. Like I thought most people would have preferred a buck saw, so I was kind of focused on that, but I also didn't want to make a huge buck saw. And so then um I started working on just uh the the little pole saw one, and I actually the the the relationship between us and silky, because they so they actually supplied the blades to us. I was talking with them yesterday actually. Um, I contacted them originally to manufacture for me like a private label saw. So I contacted them and said, Will you guys make me a because Silky's I feel like it's the best blade, but they're very expensive. I said, Can you guys make me a private label one? They said no. Well, not he, but I guess they went to their superiors or whatnot, and they said no. And so then I made the Gone Boy 240, which is like the I think it's a nine-inch blade. And the general goal with that is to take a silky saw, use the blade, but cut the weight in half. So if you've got a one-pound saw, I'll make you, I'll make it half a pound kind of thing. So I started with the 240, which I feel like is a pretty good, like if you're on a like like the trip I just did with my wife, which was like a six-day canoe trip in Calarney, I brought like I brought my huge saw, uh, because we're like having almost irresponsible fires and you know, drinking wine and making steaks and stuff. But uh the Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. And not and not really irresponsible, completely responsible, but just quite large for a typical, like bigger than in my solo stuff. So the 240 would be like for somebody who's you know doing some pretty heavy portages and whatnot. And then because of my the following of the business is mostly backpackers, like ultra-light, you know, then kind of bringing a big saw is not even on their list. Um, the next one I did was the 130, which is the little handheld one. And then I just right now, uh I'm just making prototypes right now of the the 500, which is the huge one, which is so it's a it's uh I don't know if it's gonna fit. Yeah. So that's the that's actually carbon fiber if that comes up. Yeah, so this is sort of like everybody was making um all the people that the so the 240 was generally and the 130 was generally focused on sort of people either doing like really big trips or huge portages that were watching like the weight of their gear, but it started to spill into a little bit more traditional um like camping trip type things. So I was getting a lot of not pressure, but interest in making just a uh a very large like winter bushcraft saw. And so um I've made five or six prototypes and the blades. That's why I was talking to Silky I saying the blades will be coming like in the next week, and those will go out, so I'll give them out to all the YouTubers, you know, the Xanders, the Maxims, the Joes, and whoever else will take one and do a test, and then uh probably at the Hamilton Outdoor Adventure show or the outdoor bench. So we'll we usually launch a product. Yeah, production made up.

SPEAKER_01: 22:13

Uh so and just to just to speak to the side, I would judging if that's a 500, I would say it's probably the 240. Well, although you might know better. Uh Jay from uh Beauty of the Backcountry, he was processing we were on a trip with him recently, and he was processing he doesn't he doesn't sit down well, just just saying he's he's he's in motion. Um but he was processing a bunch of wood, and he was just like zuk, zuk, zuk, done, juke, zook, juk, done. And so I was like, holy crap, man, that thing is is something, it must just rock through that stuff. So pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_00: 22:49

They're definitely yeah, the the the Silky Blades, and actually we actually have our own blades as well. We haven't released them, but we were Silky was having a supplier issue with this where they couldn't keep up with the amount of blades um that we were selling. So then we actually went to um uh Switzerland and got uh or sorry, Sweden, not Switzerland, Sweden, and got uh blades manufactured for it. So we also have a private label blade that's a little bit more economical, and that'll launch you know in the next couple months or something like that. So when you go to the website, you'll have a choice. You can either buy the silky blade, because the one of the biggest complaints we get is the silky blade. If you ever try and buy one, like even a replacement blade for the 240 is$75 at Mount Equipment Co-op because it's very, very expensive, obscene, you know. So there's people that just don't require a$75 blade. That would be a$20 blade, we'll be fine. It's maybe so cool.

SPEAKER_01: 23:44

Uh anything, is there any one product in particular that you enjoy making the most or enjoyed the designing process or or you know, like all the math and all that sort of jazz? What is that's your favorite? What's your favorite?

SPEAKER_00: 24:00

Yeah, I don't I don't know if it's a favorite, but I definitely, you know, I have people ask me about starting your own business and things like that. Um, and I I generally tell them like a I'm a bad person to ask because I'd started it by accident. It's not like I had like a business plan and did all this stuff, but I really like engineering, which is weird. And um, I used to do a lot of school uh back in the day, like when I was sort of like more in the corporate world, I used to do a lot of school presentations on engineering. You know, I'd go to like high schools and stuff that and tell people like what it being an engineer is like. And I always told them, like, if you don't love engineering, don't become an engineer because it's like when you get into work generally, um, depending on what you were like. I mean, now I'm a little bit more diverse, I do a whole bunch of stuff. But when I was working as like a mechanical engineer for Atomic Energy of Canada, there was a time like you would get to work at eight o'clock and you you engineer until five o'clock, and then you go home and you wake up in the morning, you and engineering is like you're designing stuff, you're doing stress analysis, you're doing calculations for bolts and loads and and that type of stuff. So I have a sickness where I love doing that, which is really weird. I know it wouldn't I tell people that they're like really we we will me and my wife will go on vacation. We go on vacation every year, usually somewhere like just after the trade shows, and I will literally be on the beach drinking a beer and designing something. I know, isn't that crazy? I love it, it's so much fun. And my wife is just like bobbing in the water with a cocktail, and I will design products like just in my spare time because I like it so much. So um, if you don't like if it was it's probably a pain in the butt for other people, I really enjoy it. And then I also love like making prototypes and testing them. So I think there's might be a benefit in that I I spend so much time outdoors that I can identify market needs maybe a little bit easier than somebody that just has like an idea and might not spend a lot of time in the outdoors, and then my preliminary testing is generally done by me. So I generally will make a product, design it, you know, the more challenging the better. So I I love doing the saw, I love doing the big 500, that was that was a big challenge. The the ice axe was a big challenge, and then you know, going out in the field, you know, working it until to death until I have to make some changes, and then I generally do a small batch run, you know, 10 to 15 and give it to a bunch of people to test, and then I'll do you know the launch after that. So no specific product, but the more complex the better.

SPEAKER_03: 26:22

Well, and the grill that we have is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00: 26:24

Yeah, it is. It's you want to tell people that sure.

SPEAKER_01: 26:28

Uh so we we have a grill that weighs you can tell me how much it weighs or how little it weighs. Oh, off the top of my head, I don't know. It weighs nothing. I don't know. Here's how he's on looking for one. So we'll put it on a scale.

SPEAKER_00: 26:44

Oh, I have a scaler here. I do too. Yeah that's the one you have, that's the large. It's a hundred and hundred and sixty-eight grams.

SPEAKER_01: 26:52

It it fits in a tube. It fits in a tube, it's about maybe the diameter of three pencils, all told. It's it's itty bitty. It's a loony, a loony, maybe. Probably smaller than I would say smaller than a loony, yeah. Um yeah, yeah, it's three three fits in a three-quarter inch tube. Yeah, and it it's awesome. It it's it's individual pieces, it's two long pieces for the outside edges, and then it's a whole bunch of cross pieces, and and they alternate between they so they hook together. I I don't think I can come up with a better explanation that they they have tabs that that interlock, but they interlock one one cross piece will interlock on the outside, the other cross piece, the next one will interlock on the inside, and they rotate back and forth like that. Oh, sorry, alternate back and forth like that, and it's rock solid. Once you snap it all together, it's rock solid. You can do stakes over your fire, give it a quick swish, put it back in the teeny tiny tube that weighs nothing, stick it in your pack, you're not dragging you know, your dollar store beater piece of crap and leaving it at a campsite, because that seems to be a thing with people. Using a nasty grill that's or using a nasty rusted out one that's that's at the site when you show up. Yeah, so we're quite happy with that.

SPEAKER_00: 28:13

It's it's funny that you made the comment about the nasty grill. Like this is sort of almost a good segue into how a product is developed. So, me and my wife we go on a big canoe trip every single year, usually about a week long, and it's fantastic because we're we bring really good food. We actually bring um like ice, we bring like a small cooler and we'll put like fish in it and stuff that we'll get it all prepared. And we used to go to the site and the the grills were really gross, you know. And I'm a little bit more rugged, like I can like, okay, whatever, you know, I it's not the best, but you know, fire will probably sterilize it. My wife was like, Can't you yeah, she's like, Can't you make like a like a clean grill that we can bring? And I was like, I'm not carrying a huge grill. So, you know, and then we were literally just chatting about this is years ago now, uh, well, not that long, but maybe three or four years ago when we started making the grills, and I was like, I wonder if you could make one that you could like take apart. And so the the logic, because it at the trade shows, you know, some people see the grill and it's assembled, and they're like, How do you assemble it? And I'll show them, they're like, That takes too long, and I totally get it. Like, if if you get to a campsite and you need to eat within three minutes, this is not the grill for you. You know, it it takes a couple minutes to put together. Um, but the value is in that when it's not in use and you're in you're moving, it doesn't dirty up your bag, it's small, it's super light, and then when you get to the campsite, you have to spend a little bit of time setting it up. So we used it for probably a year before I launched the product. Like I would just bring it on our trips. And actually, we like I said, we just got back from Colonial on Sunday. Today's Thursday, and we use it every single night. Yeah, it's a great little gross. And then that's a good example of, I guess, you know, we're just out there, we just I identify something that make them the market needs sort of thing and then we we make one.

SPEAKER_01: 30:05

Yeah absolutely I've got a lot of stuff that has stood over it uh from me stuffing a the dollar store one back into my pack. It's like oh man come on.

SPEAKER_00: 30:15

So yeah when I we saw that I want to say it was that the Toronto show the Toronto Adventure show yes it was and it was like oh that's that we need that we we absolutely need that so yeah there's a there's a it the the saws and the grills do quite well at the the Toronto show because it's a it really is a canoeing show that's a big big canoeing show. We do some shows in the states um like it for example like the to the US I don't even know if we sell really many grills. Like that's really a a Canadian thing I feel like um there's some grills for sure yeah but um like in Canada it's weird like the like the potlifters just don't sell up here to the US the potlifters are it's you can't keep them in stock it's completely crazy because it is a really big difference between like the ultralight backpackers and like the paddlers. I do both so you know it doesn't bother me which way or another but it's just a very different market.

SPEAKER_01: 31:13

Yeah well canoers I mean portages aside you can carry a ton more gear like it doesn't it it literally if you're paddling it doesn't matter I I have a 23 year old that I take with me so I don't care how much it weighs at all because he can portage it it's really not a big deal totally your own personal mule he calls himself a shirt um yeah oh yeah that's yeah that's a that's a better name he's a chauffeur and a better choice chauffeur too yeah I don't I don't I don't have to drive his stuff that's great have a little nap. He's great actually we hung out at the at the co-op when uh uh each night actually when uh with Evan he's a good kid he's funny he's good fun i'm I'm very happy he continues to come with me because I well uh literally three years ago maybe I bought uh solo a 14 14 foot QA expecting I was gonna be solo tripping and I've used it like twice he's used it more than I have because he keeps coming so it's like that's awesome I will trip with him as long as he's interested.

SPEAKER_00: 32:19

Oh good no that's fantastic it's I mean a father son and and mom like the family trip out in the outback is incredible.

SPEAKER_01: 32:28

Can't get anything better. I think I suspect they come because I'm less yelly if I go to on backcountry trips, right? Less stressed and stuff so let's keep them calm. Keep them calm. Less yelly that's exactly what it's a full-time job but I appreciate that you do it sweetie.

SPEAKER_00: 32:48

But um so product wise uh we've got the bigger saw coming out and we're working on a um this is this might not resonate uh very well or extremely well with the the canoeing um community but right now there's a really big push on using something called like a have you heard of a flip fuel where you refill gas canisters that you buy at the yeah or the store clean out older canisters like partial partial canisters and fill up another one instead so you're taking one canister not trying to take three of them with little drips and drops. Exactly so we're actually working on a I wonder if I have it here oh I might be able to show you something maybe an old prototype. We're working on a carbon fiber um gas canister for stoves which will definitely be our most complex um product that we've ever made yeah I have experience with uh TSSA regulation and pressure vessels from my time in uh the nuclear industry because we used to do pressure so when you're when you're uh designing something that's gonna hold pressure under certain circumstances so it has to be a certain volume and a certain pressure you're not just allowed to build one like you can't just make a gas canister because if it blows up it's literally going to blow up in someone's hands. So there's all these regulations and it's regulated by the TSSA and I used to do this in the nuclear industry. So we are we're in like very very early prototype phase it might never come but it's something that um I've been working on for the last like six to eight months in my spare time it's not like a solid kind of thing. But what it will do is instead so you'll you'll you'll you'll buy a gas canister which is essentially disposable from like Mountain Equipment Co-op or cane tire or whatever you get. And a lot of people are refilling them but the the valve it's called a Lindel valve on those things and the valve on those is rated for about like between 25 and 50 times like you you wouldn't be able to use it for you know 10 years it would eventually leak because it's just made of aluminum so we're doing a carbon fiber shell with it'll be what we want to do titanium. So that way that you buy one of these canisters and you kind of can buy a very large one and just refill it over and over again. And this is uh yeah and then edit me back in now so it'll look something where's the camera so it'll look something like that this is just uh so it's carbon fiber. I haven't done the top yet um just got the the actual uh did the analysis of the actual carbon fiber itself so we're working on that which is gonna be like a little bit of a game changer that's probably more popular for backpacking and hiking so you'll save the weight of the canister itself and then it'll be refillable from larger canisters which we hope you would like kind of be a little bit more efficient.

SPEAKER_01: 35:35

Like a that's for sake of argument like a five pound propane tank but one with isobutane or something so that you can fill it 18 times well that'd be great. That's also sorry don't mean to sidetrack you there just I'm that's way less canisters being chucked in the garbage basically because that's what those canisters aren't re you know refillable and stuff right so environmentally friendly.

SPEAKER_00: 36:00

Yeah so the logic would for sure I mean it would be great if you could go to like a gas station and fill them up like you can with the propane canister or whatever it is but uh the logic is that you would just buy a really huge one and then you would fill this one up as needed and you would always have a full one um and so there'd be a whole bunch of benefits to it. So that's something that we're working on. The new saw is uh is going to be released for this winter and I think that's probably about it. And then you have to remember it's like I have probably 50 things that are 10% done just over the years you know and then you get sidetracked and you spend some time on that but that's where the the sort of big push is um right now and then it's just um keeping up with demand we're we're small we're like three people you know like it's really tiny you know it's if you oh if if you go to a trade show that's my whole family working the the trade show it's my wife usually my sister my brother in law loves to do it and then sometimes some friends some friends come and stuff like that. But it's generally because it's kind of fun it's generally like my family that you're meeting at that that trade show so yeah I'm I have your wife and your brother in law now so just your sister to go. Yeah my sister is a little she doesn't come as she's not as easy to convince to work for free. That's called slave labor. So my wife loves it no but my like so my wife like loves it because she has a background in economics and she's just always I'm usually a little bit more flustered so she wants to handle all the sales and everything like that. And then my brother in law just is um he's just a super friendly super good guy and he just loves the trade shows can't get enough of it. So you know he'll he'll probably be at the Hamilton outdoor adventure show with me this year. Oh and you know uh the Hamilton Adventure show is having a film festival yeah on the Friday night yeah yeah and um here's a little a little teaser the the there's a video one of my videos is going to be in it yeah I think at least I got I got confirmation just the other day I won't tell you which one or whatever but uh it's not one that's on uh on YouTube so it's it's uh pretty interesting well we're looking so speaking of trips trips that you do uh we're looking forward to still early stages of organizing things but we're hoping uh we're hoping to have you and Evan Lafave uh Evan Lafave but Evan Lafive um come and do a live stream with us you know somewhere out towards uh the back end of this year and uh yak about a very cool trip that you both have done way too many bugs for me but outside of that that looked awesome it's it's like we no no I just I keep there's a picture of you in in in the in the bug suit and the the they're so thick it's like oh you you could you'd breathe out you'd be just like I can't even I can't even imagine that yeah so we we'd love to we'd love to join you for sure we had a great time on that trip it was uh very challenging weather conditions were tough uh even just like physically tough and the bugs ranged from you know non-existent to some of the worst I've ever seen in my life yeah it was like I've just never seen it like that in my entire life very cool experience so I'm glad that you had the options so win win yeah cool well what does the what does the future hold for Tzulik 46? Oh yeah um so this is a a really uh interesting thing I I used to be uh like a little bit of a workaholic like if you if you talk to my so I've been married to my wife forever and I met her when I was in my early 20s and I worked you know 60 hours a week for 15 years. Like I was working you know I used to come home eight o'clock at night leave at six in the morning uh there wasn't a Saturday that I didn't work that I can for I felt like years. I mean there was sure the odd thing um and then when I when I was in my um like more corporate role as a general manager of a bit kind of like a big company over an engineering company you know if you called me at two o'clock in the morning um like I would answer my phone and you had a problem with a piece of machinery or the you know Ontario Power Generation calls you and they've got an emergency like I was so committed to it. And so the reason why I kind of bring this up is I I'm I'm 48 now and like my values have kind of completely changed over the years. It's not that I I don't believe in like my I still have a work ethic I still work a lot but it's a little bit more enjoyable. But I'll like my goal with the business is not to ever work like that again. And so I have people often be like oh you should do this you should do this and I'm like I take three months off a year and I sometimes I shut the business down for a month and you know this would be mind blowing to a full entrepreneur and I usually tell young people I'm like if you want the business you can have it just keep me on payroll like I'm just not I'm not gonna turn it into like uh the type of life where I can't spend time with my family. So the priority for you know until I let's say officially retire or whatever is just to kind of ride this out make some money go on some trips spend time with family and friends and enjoy the rest of my life to be honest and then uh I don't know I'm I'm sure somebody at some point will approach me and say you're not doing a good job let me let me show you how to do it and I will say here you go man show me the way and uh that's the plan right now so I have no idea what will actually happen. That's excellent. Hire me I I want to come work the same yeah yeah I know well that's the one of the downfalls of taking all the time off and having a business like that is you don't make a ton of money.

SPEAKER_01: 41:47

I'm I'm a building manager. I don't make a ton of money so I I'm I'm down with that as well.

SPEAKER_00: 41:52

Yeah I I joke with my friends all the time you know like when when I started the business I had a like I was a little bit younger and I was gonna grind it out and turn into like this huge corporation with a hundred employees and I would joke with all my friends like oh put you guys on a payroll but you don't have to do anything. And then the reality of a small business when you're just like a handful of people is like it can be a little bit of a grind for sure especially if you're planning on taking you know significant time off and and whatnot. So nothing would be happier than hiring everyone I know and having them just go on trips but it's just like not in the cards. Right now. Right now give me a couple years all right that's it for us for today.

SPEAKER_03: 42:27

Thank you so much to Steve Evans from Suluk46 for joining us and please do check him out he's on all the social media Instagram Facebook and the website is Suluk46.com S-U-L UK46.com please do check us out we are on all the social media too and you can email us anytime we're at high at supergoodcamping.com that's hi at supergoodcamping.com and we'll talk to you again soon bye oh and also check look for him at the Hamilton Adventure Expo Toronto outdoor adventure show and another one that I don't know anything about but but Frostbite out in Alberta uh that'll be another show he'll be at that's it and maybe you've got a free temp free time peg yeah look for the defective free time pegs send them to me